You could put the costs into bands ie 200-250 band a or 250-300 band b similar to the council tax set etc. and venues could confirm wether the bands were worth the banding but it could be open to abuse the venue could do something ie 200 for first gig and if they are any good rebook at a higher price if no good rebook or they could pm message the bands they are interested in nd ask them and make his list that way

I can only speak for us, but what we get from gigs totally depends on the negotiation at the time the gig is being booked. We have done gigs for £300, then again, we've done, and are doing, some gigs for nowt. Also it depends on the timescale as well, if a venue asks us to play tomorrow night, obviously we would negotiate a little extra for the short notice.
I personally wouldn't like to be pigeonholed as either too cheap or too expensive.

You could put us in the "negotiable" category LOL

I think pm would sort it really as the negotiation could then be done...most bands would be happy with 200 nicker and a little more to cover travel....most cover bands don't make alot of money....if there are alot of band embers 200 on't go a long way so the pice goes up but we usually play for around 200-250 if the venue is not too far....but if it is further thenf the gig gives us payment and covers the VERY EXPENSIVE fuel then it would go up to cover it....for example to travel to Brmingham for a gig would cost at least 60 quid in fuel soon eats into the gig money....really hard question to answer really .

Regarding putting prices on the site: could be a problem as many bands don't like to publish prices and also speaking personally I prefer to chat to a venue about the band and what we are about and if a venue has to contact us regardin the price, a) that means they are interested in us (always a good thing) and b) I can sell the band over the phone better than all the info given out on our my space site! - well I think I can!

Echoing Mr NWB, While the venues expect to make a good return on their investment, It should also follow that it costs to get to the venue, The band usually bring a few supporters and they all spend whilst there.Decent equipment costs money not only to buy but also to maintain.
Speaking from my experiences with ThreeFold ( and no doubt it is true of all the bands here on NWB), a lot of time and effort goes into preparing for and playing, not to mention the time loading, traveling to the gig, unpacking, setting up, repacking,loading driving back and unloading ( no luxury of dedicated road crews for most of us).
So a 2hr gig can become a 4-6 hr input.
Suddenly a couple of hundred quid sounds like a good deal for the venue.

I agree totally with Keef. I don't think venues sometimes realise the number for hours put in by the band, especially if the band are travelling any distant. If you equate the number of hours from leaving home to getting home after the gig the hourly rate is usually below the minimum wage. But we don't do for the money do we?

Roger
TWIN Lizzy

Its not a can of worms mate it really good input as some venues are not always on the level as they say but I would always negotiate and come to a deal as we all like to play and get some recompense to keep gear updted etc....maybe see you soon Rod.

Come to the gig and i will give you your £1 commission and buy you a drink

Well we owe NWB a £1 then... in fact if you come to one of our gigs we'll give you £1, a pint AND a bag of crisps or pork scratchings. Rock n Roll!

On the subject of payment for gigs ....isnt it down to wot the venue can afford ???
Also i dont think ALL bands shud be paid the same amount ...wot happened to the 'paying yr dues' and learning yr instrument 1st b4 unleashing yr unrehearsed 4 chord bash songs on the public....We witnessed about 6 bands at a recent local fest all doing the same songs and nearly in the same order and all with no skill or great vocal or harmony rehearsed work............Ill stop now !!!

Good points there Mothers. Sometimes is not what the venue can afford but how much or indeed how little than can get a band in for.

Agreed, some bands starting out do not have the set list that inspires or the skill base. But we all started out from the floor up. As an Agent/mentor/Manager ( and all round nice geezer), I ALWAYS suggest the band hones its act working the many jam nights, talk to fellow musicians, catch gigs in the area and generally get a feel for what level they are at and what they feel they need to improve on before pulling bigger gigs.

Some listen, some don't. But we should not knock their desire or enthusiasm.

you mean, when you play, you are supposed to get payed ????!!!!@;#>> i knew there was somethin we kept forgettin, oh shit !!!!!!!!!!

Easy done when you mix adrenalin with a few drinks.

Keef you are very wise man..and every inch the diplomat. every one has a right to thier opinion, i agree, but if we start to knock guys who are out there 'doing' then thier desire and enthusiasm would quickly become dulled...i have been singing since i was fifteen, however i have been 'in a band' for just short o 3 years..when i first started with DF i was full of self doubt.. the last thing i needed would have been someone slagging me off, and if i am up there sweating me nadgers off, putting the effort in i want paying the same as the next guy, my sweats as good as the next guys...it narks me greatly when watching bands at pub n club venues other 'muso's' slag the performing bands off, lets face it practically everybody on NWB arent in it for the money, cos venues wont/cant pay a lot, they are in it for the love of music and the desire to entertain, in my case to anybody who will listen..lol..I say to all you long in tooth, gnarly, experienced rock n rollers, heed what Keef says, be supportive, advise & guide if you feel neccessary. but please dont knock triers..Can somone bring me a ladder, i want to get off my soap box now. please... anyone??? ohh feck...

Threefold and Keef are like coffe and cream always together.....I keep telling him cream is forcoffee but he doesn't forcoffe he 's always there LOL. we started of with charity gigs and the like, honed skills in other bands and got better we would like to be paid for our gigs and will always negotiate and if the venue is receptive they will get a gig and a fair price ,recently playing a small gig for small money, the landlord offered us four more gigs and to play his birthday as well after the first set ! he increased the money as well why ?because we went in low played well and filled his tills not all bands are good, not all bands are brilliant, we don't know what we are....it a persomal choice , we get rebooked so that says something but as Keef and the other bands know "when you pass your driving test and get on the road you learn to drive" so when you start to gig you learn to play so all bands have to start somewhere so new bands will be three cjord wonders but they gig meet other muso's and they learn new things like paradiddles,pentatonics or how to sing down a mike becuase someone at a gig may give them advice ..not barring the one who has been playing for twenty nine years has natural talent,tells you he can't hear the singer then when you speak to him he says eh? knows everything and has never been in a band we've all met him/her LOL....even some early Zep bootlegs they make mistakes and sound crap....Emerson,Lake and Palmer played Ilse of Wight 40 years ago had to play the same album 3 times...I live in Fleetwood the Beatles played here in the eraly sixties and got boooed of stage where are they now eh ? bunch of wasters.
what it all means is we all start some where we were all crap once and in my case still am....but there would be nothing new if it was not for the up and coming kids...I mean look at boyzone!!!!!!!

STATUS QUO THREE CHORD WONDERS WHERE ARE THEY NOW ? BET THEY MADE NO MONEY PLAYING.

Do you ever watch QI with Steven Fry when the Alarm goes off cos theyve missed the point ???? try playing a Quo song and get it to sound right !!!
Im not knocking bands who get out there and try there best but strumming thru everysong without any dynamics and wanting to charge top whack to venues......eg theres a local pub near me who have bands on normally top class bands but sometimes theres the not so good bands on which empty the pub cos the punters know so the venue loses out and the punters automatically stop going in every week in case its another 'unready' band on the semi pro scene ....

Yr lucky then Daz.......but clubs do have a better rep than the old familiar pub scene

I think thats free so we'll pencil that in then daz and confirm when i look in next yeras BIG diary

The more 'seasoned' amongst us all know where the bad paying gigs are,and we make the choice whether or not to keep going back.

Maybe we should 'name and shame' the tightest venues?

Some bands are charging a 'mint'!! I have depped with some bands that play the cheesiest songs on the planet, yet get top paid gigs because they have bags of experience, have the right attitude, a good PA and lights. What venues want to pay and what bands deserve is a big bone of contention....

I think we all know which venue you mean Dark Horse ......!!!
Again on the subject of 'unsuitable' bands for decent venues where punters know the difference we've been asked to find some good bands for a venue we recently gigged cos she is fed up of sub standard bands blagging gigs there and emptying her pub !!! And this is a biker friendly pub who like rock !!!

I dont think its a case of good or bad paying venues. The pubs are business's and pay what they can afford. Either bands want to play for the money on offer or they don't.

Our band play through agencies and pull £450 upwards, but I have been in bands when we have played a pub for £100 and its hardly covered the beer costs. We have the up keep of a big Pa and lighting rig not to mention the up keep of the van, insurance, tax, servicing, tyres etc and we arent rich so we need to earn enough to cover that and give us a few quid besides. I understand most pubs can't afford our fees so we go where there are venues that can. I enjoyed playing in my previous band much more but when it comes down to it cos it was classic rock, its appeal was limited & the money we were earning wasn't enough to cover our overheads.

At least there are still venues out there trying to keep it going. The way its gone since the smoking ban I am suprised more haven't gone down the drain.

Mothers: I do know where your coming from, I didn't think for a moment you were having a pop at new bands. I have recently auditioned singers who genuinely believed they were capable and able to take to the stage. 6 Months of singing along at Karaoke nights doth NOT a singer make !!carefully chosen words and advice managed to do the job. ( Simon Cowell take note- no need to ridicule belittle and embarrass).

Shame we can't graft old heads onto new bodies. Till then its really up to us older ones to guide the new kids.

Two thoughts spring to mind:
1: The Venue. Talk to the band about the kind of music your looking for,
2: Bands - Think about the gig. What kind of audience will you be playing to? Does your set list fit in?
If your style or experience level match up, great, go for it. If not however, give it a miss and come back at them at a later date.

Its like I have said before- Its all about working together.

Maybe we should have a sticky list for venues including there musical preferences. Ora list of venues that bands have played with their (positive) thoughts on what works there.

OH dear it's a can of worms now Daz LOL very heartily.

NWB is the place to sort out the wheat from the chaff... bad venue say so .... bad band say so .....but some of us sensitive types out here may cry a bit.....Boo.Hoo!

I don't think that anyone on here, especially if the venue is listed will slag it off... One in particular pay £180 tops and less to some unfortunate others and some of you know who I mean because you've moaned to me personally about it yet none of you stick together and demand more...WHY NOT.. the place gets packed to the rafters and when we play there £180 between 4 talented musicians = £45 each minus the £20 we spend at THEIR bar and at least £15 petrol = £10 (laughable).. we set off at 7.30 and lucky to be home for 1.30. For 6 hours work its fk all, bar staff and the toilet cleaner are on a lot more.. In fact 1 band got £130 beacuse they didn't negotiate a price 1st (they're not stupid enough to play there again)... Shame on you for taking the pss, I hope your pub goes under for being so greedy ...

I agree with Paul...£200 minimum say for the bands just starting out and the more established ones £250 and over... I know some venues can't afford this and you know which ones struggle yet even they pay more and give you a little extra sometimes if it was a busyish night, I feel sorry for the ones trying hard to keep it going...

Anyone wanna discuss the venues in private, send us a msg, maybe with enough support things may change.

And I was comin on my own Daz with a sequencer and copycat machine !!!!